Debate #3 Comments

I just finished watching the debate. I have a lot to say about it but I'm too tired to do it now. I'll post my summary comments tomorrow.

Below are the notes I took during the debate. This was a much more interesting one. As always, my notes are not exactly verbatim... they're the best I could do.

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- Here we go with the final debate of this election. Let's go!

- Interesting setup with the face-to-face. Let's see if they can talk face to face...

- First up! Economic plans...

McCain brings up Nancy Reagan's injury to address the first question. Huh? Nice shoutout, but,... huh?

He's talking about his lousy housing plan first. He says that his plan will help the people who make their payments on time by helping house prices.

OK... I'm pausing right here. I mean literally, I paused the debate to type this answer.

I don't believe that it will. If anything, for the time being, it will keep house prices down because you are resetting home values to a lower price. So for anyone, it's going to be a long time before house prices make a significant improvement. Whether he did this move or not, house prices are not changing. It's going to take time for them to go up. There is no quick fix for this and helping bailout banks and allowing people to refinance at a discount is not the answer.

Let's see what Obama says...

He has a 4 point plan about economics:
1. Focus on Jobs. Get rid of tax cuts for companies sending jobs overseas.
2. Give middle class tax cut. And access IRA accounts without penalty.
3. Allow for renegotiating of mortgages, but not how McCain wants to.
4. Fix health care, energy policy, invest in education.

McCain's now talking about Joe the plumber. He says that this man would pay higher taxes through Obama's plan. He couldn't afford to buy a business. McCain says he'll help Joe by keeping taxes low.

Obama says tax policy is a major difference between them. McCain wants to provide tax breaks for the rich. He wants to provide tax cuts for everyone else. Says he wants to give tax breaks to 98% of small businesses.

McCain accuses Obama of telling Joe that they need to spread the wealth around. We shouldn't raise anyone's taxes right now.

Obama talking about super-rich people having to pay additional taxes. McCain says we're talking about Joe the plumber. McCain's hitting him hard here.

McCain says businesses pay the 2nd highest tax rate of anywhere in the world. Says we'll lose jobs when they go to other countries. Says it's not time to spread the wealth around.

- I have to say... McCain is off to a hot start. Truthfully, I don't feel to bad about someone making more than $250,000 to have to pay their fair share of taxes, but McCain made a more compelling argument on this topic.

On to the next one...


- Talking about the deficit and how both of their plans will add to it...

Obama says the rescue package will give money back to the deficit. He says we've been living beyond our means and cuts will have to be made. Says he's matching increases with cuts in spending. Says he'll go through the federal budget and make cuts on programs that don't work. Need to invest in health care to prevent diseases, energy policy, in education. Need to adopt a culture of responsibility.

McCain says he wants to get back to home ownership. Talking about a Depression Era program. Says Hillary proposed something similar. Schieffer is trying to get him back on topic about the deficit and spending cuts. So McCain launched into energy independence. Says doing that will create millions of jobs. OH! Now he suddenly changes course and starts abruptly talking about the spending freeze he previous mentioned. Says he'll get out the hatchet first then the scalpel. Says he'll save billions in defense spendings and eliminate programs... even though he's said in a previous debate that he would not cut defense spending. He's giving examples now... says he knows how to save billions. Talking again how he saved $6.8 billion on a defense contract (I previously mentioned this and all that did was allow the contract to be picked up by a supporter of his and it's still not finalized years later). Talking about earmarks again and cutting out the pork.

Obama opposes the spending freeze. Says it is a hatchet job when a scalpel is needed. Says some programs need to be cut while others need more support. Now he's going into earmarks... says earmarks are 0.5% of the federal budget. Says using the same policies of the last 8 years is not going to work.

Schieffer asks if budget can be balanced in 4 years. McCain says yes... then the fireworks start!

McCain says he's not Bush and if Obama wanted to run against Bush, he should have run four years ago. He says he's going to give the country a new direction. Dang! McCain's owning this right now.

Says the budget is out of control. Talking about New York doing a spending freeze and says it can work. Says Obama voted for current budgets that put up the deficit and earmarks that he opposed. Says he's fought against special interests, spending, for reform. Challenges Obama to say when he's stood up against his party one time. Whoo! McCain is on fire! Obama better grab the reigns here or McCain's going to win this thing. Go back at him, Barack!

Obama says as far a standing up to his party his first major bill he voted on was support on tort laws. Supporting charter schools. Clean coal technologies. There you go, McCain!

Says the claim that he's supported a tax on people making less than $42,000 a year has been disputed, even by Fox News. Says if he's mistaken McCain's plans with Bush's because he's supported Bush's policies on key issues. Particularly economic policies. Says people know it hasn't worked and we need a new direction.

McCain says he's disagreed with people (Bush, his own party). He's listing a bunch of things... says he has a long record of reform. Says Obama's argument for standing up to leaders of his party is not convincing.

Then they move on.

- Next topic: Leadership shown during the campaign.

OK, I'm LOVING Bob Schieffer right now. He's bringing up the nasty tactics that have been used during this campaign after they both pledged to take the high road. He's asking them to say the same things to each other's faces. OH! Nice! I'm curious to see this discussion.

McCain first.

Says it's been a tough campaign. Says if Obama had responded to his "urgent" requests to do town hall meetings they could have done 10 of them. Says Obama at first said any place, any time. Says tone could have been different (if they had done them). Says he thinks the campaign has taken many turns which are unacceptable.

He's talking about John Lewis. Says Lewis associated him and Palin with segregation, deaths of children in church bombings, George Wallace... then accuses Obama of not repudiating those remarks. THEN he claims that if Republicans have been making out of bounds remarks, he's done that. Asks Obama to do that against Lewis. Says he'll run a truthful campaign. And says Obama has spent more money on negative ads than any campaign in history... and he can prove it! Then talks about Obama saying he would take public financing if McCain did but then didn't. He didn't keep his word. Says we now have the highest spending on any campaign since Watergate.

HOLD ON!

OK, so Obama agrees NOT to spend public taxpayers money to run a campaign and McCain's going to say there's a problem with that? Obama didn't take the money because he knew he would be saving the taxpayers money and he's only been spending so much because he's been getting more in donations. Obama knew he could get more money that way. I say.. Smart move, Barack!

Obama's response now...

Says we expect Presidential campaigns to be tough. Says CBS ran a poll showing 2/3rds of the people think McCain is running a negative campaign. Says 100% of McCain's adds are negative. McCain denies that. (I don't think it's been 100% the whole time, but it has been recently and I've seen that noted elsewhere.) Says the people care more about the issues than their hurt feelings. Says the notion that because they didn't do town hall meetings that it justifies some of the ads that have been going on, both from McCain's campaign and others, .. well, he doesn't mind being attacked, but we can't put up with 4 more years of economic crisis.

OK.. dang! I didn't like that response. Obama had a chance there to really nail McCain but pulled it back. Instead changed to this issues. Rats.

Now he's going back to McCain's campaign stating they can't win by talking about the issues... says he'd love to have the next three weeks to be talking about the issues. Says politics as usual will not solve the problems.

McCain says while watching Arizona beat Dallas on Sunday (Obama interjects "congratulations"... McCain giggled... hee hee!) every other ad was an attack on his health care plan.

Eeerk! Hit the breaks!

OK, there's a difference between attacking someone's policies and attacking their character. There's no comparison. I have no problems with ads that knock someone's plans, but when you are putting out ads accusing someone of being a terrorist (which he is NOT), THAT I have a problem with.

Back to the program...

Says Obama is running ads saying McCain's opposed funding for stem cell research. He says he does not. Says there's an add that mis-portrays his immigration position. Again mentions Obama's record spending on ads. Says he's going to let Joe the plumber keep his wealth instead of spreading it around. Says his campaign is all about the economy, jobs. Again mentions that we did not hear a repudiation of Lewis from Obama.

Obama says if we're going to talk about Lewis... he says Lewis unprompted by his campaign made some statements of concern about what was being said at Palin's rallies. Talks about how at those rallies things like "terrorist" and "kill him" have been said. And that Palin did nothing about it. He says Lewis point.. McCain interrupts him saying "you gotta read what he said"....

Break again.

I did read what he said. Here it is, from CNN:

Lewis had said earlier that he was "deeply disturbed by the negative tone of the McCain-Palin campaign" and that the Republican running mates are "playing with fire."

"What I am seeing reminds me too much of another destructive period in American history. Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin are sowing the seeds of hatred and division, and there is no need for this hostility in our political discourse," Lewis said in a statement.

"During another period, in the not too distant past, there was a governor of the state of Alabama named George Wallace who also became a presidential candidate. George Wallace never threw a bomb. He never fired a gun, but he created the climate and the conditions that encouraged vicious attacks against innocent Americans who were simply trying to exercise their constitutional rights. Because of this atmosphere of hate, four little girls were killed on Sunday morning when a church was bombed in Birmingham, Alabama," wrote the Democrat.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/12/mccain.lewis/index.html

Lewis's point was not to say that McCain and Palin are those people. But they are doing things that are creating similar circumstances. And they are! Their firing up their crowds and some incredibly hateful things are being said as a result of what they are doing. It needs to stop.

Back to where we were...

So McCain tried to interrupt Obama and Obama said to let him finish. (It was his turn.)

Obama says they immediately put out a statement saying that he didn't think that comparison was appropriate. Lewis then said he probably did go over the line.

Obama says he's been trying to focus on the issues because that's what the people want to hear about. People have become cynical about out politics because all they see is a tit for tat... back and forth.

McCain tries to interject again but Obama keeps talking and McCain stops. He keeps trying to break in while Obama's talking. Obama talks about how they have a difference in policies. But when people are talking about how he pals around with terrorists, we're not talking about issues... and then I couldn't hear the rest because McCain started talking over him.

I have to tell you... I though McCain was winning this thing but now he's starting to annoy me by being rude and interrupting Obama. He had me (as far as this debate is concerned) but he's losing me now...

Let's see what was so important for McCain to get out...

McCain says he's proud of the people who have come to his rallies. Says that your going to get fringe people in that large of a crowd. He's talking about different people coming to his rallies ... and saying that Obama is saying that THOSE people are saying negative things about him. (I don't think anyone said that.) Says things have been said at Obama's rallies that he hasn't like and again claims to have repudiated things that have been said every time. (LIE!) He says he has not stood for the things like that happening.

Obama says what's most important is to solve the key problems that we're having, everyone needs to work together, all parties. He says that we can have tough debates about issues but we cannot characterize each other as bad people.

AGAIN McCain interrupts Obama before he's done and does allow him to finish. He's losing points with me here...

Uh oh. McCain brought up Ayers and says that we should know what this relationship with Obama is all about. I was HOPING he'd bring this up. He also brought up ACORN. Obama better put this to rest.

Let's watch!

Obama says Ayers has become the centerpiece of McCain's campaign and he's going to set the record straight. FINALLY!

He says Ayers is a professor and he did terrorist acts when he was eight. He says he's condemned those acts. They both served on a board for Richard Annenburg. There were lots of other significant people on that board. Ayers is not involved with his campaign. He will not advise him. Says ACORN is a union organization and people filled out registration forms improperly. It didn't involve him. Says he represented them to get a motor voter law in Illinois. He says it's important to get this out because somehow they think his association are trouble. He names people he does associate with. He says the fact that these issues have become such an important part of McCain's campaign says more about his campaign than it does about him.

DANG! Now SHUT UP, McCain!

OK, McCain's response...

McCain just said something about the board sending money to Acorn while both McCain and Obama were on that board. Talking about launching his career in Ayers living room (Obama denies this). McCain says facts are facts and Obama says those are not the facts. McCain says all of the details need to be known about those relationships. (What else does he think there is?) He says his campaign is about getting the economy back on track, creating jobs, a brighter future for America. Says he won't raise taxes like Obama.

Schieffer goes to change the subject now.

DANG! I wanted Obama to really nail McCain to the wall on this. Why couldn't he just say, "What else do you think there is, John?" News organizations have said there's nothing there. Urgh!

Next topic...

- Talking about VP choices... OH!!!!! I love this! I tell you what, Schieffer's the one guys in these debates so far that has actually asked some good, confrontational questions. The question is: why would the country be better of with your running mate than your opponents running mate?

OK, if Obama doesn't take the chance to slam Palin now... I don't know what to tell you...

Obama first...

Says Biden is one of the finest public servants in the country. People on both sides acknowledge his expertise. Says he fights for the little guy. Naming bill and acts Biden worked on. He's talking about things they are going to do to help people... ok... he's not hitting up Palin... says on the key issues, Biden's been on the right side.

McCain says American's have gotten to know Sarah Palin. She's a role model to women (ugh!). She's a reformer. Took on the Governor of her own party. She fought corruption. Gave money back to the tax payers. Negotiated with oil companies. Need that breath of fresh air. (that's not what I smell!) She understands special needs families. She understands that. (Her baby is... what? 6 months old? How much could she know already?) He's proud of her.

Schiffer specifically asks Obama if Palin is qualified to be President. C'mon, Barack!

Obama says that's up to the American people. Says she's a capable politician. She's excited the Republican base. Wants to point out that special needs will require special funding. He's talking about McCain's spending freeze now and how that could affect special needs programs.

Time out.

Why, OH WHY, didn't he say "no" and give some reasons? What hurts in doing that? I don't get it. Why is she being so specially protected. I would have slammed her to the ground. She can't answer simple questions. She was unethical as governer. She avoids the press. She's married to a secessionist. So many things. Why didn't he in some way say "no"? URGH!

Now Schiffer asks McCain about Biden...

He better not say much else but, "heck yes!"

See! Now McCain is doing it right. Says that Biden's qualified in many ways, but he's been wrong on many National security issues. He's taking a shot. Obama, you better get some shots in! Says Biden voted against the Gulf War. Says Biden had an idea about dividing Iraq. Says there are issues that he disagrees with Biden on.

Now he comes back to how Obama says he wants to spend more.

OK, that section REALLY frustrated me. Obama should have slammed Palin in SOME way, but he didn't. But McCain took his shots at Biden. That was bad, Barack. You had a chance to set Palin up in a negative light for people and you really did not.

Moving on to the next topic.

- Energy and climate change. Talking about the dependance on foreign oil.

McCain says we can reduce dependence on Middle Eastern and Venezuelen oil. Takes a shot at Obama about the Free Trade agreement. Talking about nuclear power and says to Obama that we can take care of spent fuel. Talking about green energy sources. Says in 10 years we can eliminate our dependence on foreign energy from countries that threaten our security.

Schiffer changes the question a little for Obama and ask how much it can be done in 4 years.

Obama says in 10 years says we can reduce our dependence on oil from the Middle East and Venezuela. Says nothing is more imporant that borrowing from China and sending it to Saudi Arabia. Says we need to expand domestic production. Says that for areas not currently being drilled, use them or lose them. Says we can't drill our way out of the problem. Talks about green energy sources are priorities.

Wants to talk about McCain's comments on NAFTA. Says for far too long the attitude has been that any trade agreement is a good agreement. NAFTA does not have labor or environmental agreements. Says foreign cars are coming into the US but not going out as many to other countries.

McCain says he loves Obama's eloquence but you have to listen to the words. OOF!

He says Obama said "we'll look at off-shore drilling". McCain says we can do it now. We'll reduce price by showing that we can do it now.

OK... he's losing me here. He's talking about NAFTA and how he's in favor of it. Mentions that Obama's never been South of the border. Says it will be a job creator because we won't have to pay to ship products out. Says if Obama travelled down there and visited, he'd understand better.

I tell you what... right now McCain's mopping the floor with Obama. Obama better start getting his own shots in...

Obama says he understands things pretty well. Says labor leaders have been assassinated but not prosecuted. Says we need to stand for human rights. Stood for the Peruvian agreement. Says we have to have a President who understands the benefits of free trade but will stand up to other countries. Says automakers are getting hammered right now. Says we need to make them make more fuel efficient cars. Says that's a priority for him. It'll create lots of jobs.

McCain says we don't want free trade with our best allies in the region but wants to sit with our enemies without preconditions. Says Obama wants to restrict trade and raise taxes. Says Hoover did that and it caused a greater depression.

Why is McCain always getting the last word? This SUCKS!

- Next topic: health care. Because of the economy, would either of them favor controlling health care costs over expanding coverage?

Obama first.

Says we need to do both. Says if you have insurance through work, you keep it. Says he wants to lower costs. Says he thinks he can cut costs by $2500 a year. If you don't have it, the option to buy into the pool that he and McCain are a part of. Says preconditions would not prevent people from getting coverage. Says his plan will cost money on the front end, but in the long run will save money.

McCain cost is inflicting pain. Says we need to put health care records online. Talking about physical fitness programs in schools. Rewards for people who join health clubs. Wants to give $5000 credit. He's talking to Joe the plumber again saying that he'll be fined if he doesn't provide health benefits to his employees. He'd like to know what the fine would be. He says Obama's plan is a single payer system.

Obama says it's not. He says Joe's fine will be zero. He says the requirement is for large businesses and he exempts small businesses. He's talking about how everyone has to pay for the uninsured. Says he'll give a 50% credit to companies that provide insurance. If people don't get it, they can buy into the plan he described. (Sorry I don't have that verbatim (his plan). I'm doing my best here to keep up...)

Obama now talking about McCain's $5000 tax credit. Says employer's will lose employee insurance because young, healthy people will be able to afford to buy health insurance, but others will not be able to because they cannot afford it (like families). So they'll be the only ones left on their company's health plans. And the company will not be able to afford it. And all you'll have is this credit. He also mentions that McCain wants to tax employer health benefits. Also, the average health insurance policy is $12,000 (OK, Obama, you got it going here...). That's a loss for people. Also, with McCain wanting to strip away state restrictions, companies will be able to cherry-pick who they want to provide coverage to.

McCain's talking to Joe again. Says he's rich. He'll have to pay a fine for not providing health insurance. He'll have to pay a fine for not doing it. Says Obama will mandate who he can have for health insurance. (THAT'S NOT TRUE!) McCain says the average cost of a health insurance plan is $5800. (Where did he get that number?) He's talking more about this... Obama's plan is big government. Wants people to be able to decide what's best for their families.

Obama's rebutting. McCain's plan will cause people to lose their health plans from work. Says the US Chamber of Commerce says McCain's plan could unravel employer based health care.

- Next topic: Abortion. Could either of them ever nominate a Supreme Court justice who did not share their views on this?

McCain says abortion should be in the hands of the states. Nominees should be based on their qualifications. Says he voted for two justices based on their qualifications. Says Obama didn't vote for two because they didn't meeting his idiology.

Schiffer tries to get to the point of the question which was about whether he would nominate someone who didn't share his views on abortion. McCain goes back to the qualifications point.

Obama says the most important thing is being able to provide justice and fairness. Says it's a very good chance one of them will be appointing at least one judge and Roe v. Wade hangs in the balance. He says he thinks it was rightly decided. He gives a bunch of reasons why that I didn't all catch. Says he'll look for judges with the right intellect.

Obama's talking about an equal pay case that he tried to support while McCain opposed it. I lost how he got here.

OK, now McCain's bringing some partial abortion law that Obama supposedly voted against in Illinois. It was a law that would have provided immediate medical attention to a baby who survived an abortion attempt. He says Obama voted against it. In another he says Obama voted against a late term abortion law. He says Obama voted against the views of main stream America. I'm not so sure about that...

Obama's response...

He says if it sounds incredible that he would withhold life-saving treatment from an infant, that's because it's not true! He says it would have undermined Roe v. Wade. He says there was already a law for this in place and that both pro-choice Republicans and Democrats voted against it. He supports late term abortions except in the case of threats to the mother's health and life, which the law did not include. He says the issue of abortion divides us. Says there is common ground. Says we should prevent unintended pregnancies. Provide adoption options. Says abortion is a tragic situation.

OK, McCain talks about Obama's eloquence again and is addressing the "health of the mother". Says he'll help with the adoptive services.

Then Schiffer ends it. McCain didn't really get to make his point.

Next...

- Last topic: We spend more money on education than other countries, but we trail other countries on achievement (basically). What to do?

Obama first (again)...

This has more to do with our economic future than anything. And it has a national security implications. Says we have to get our education system right. Do we need more money or reform? He says both. Says we need to recruit new teachers with higher pay. Need to make college affordable. Students are going into debt to go to school. Wants to give a $4000 tuition credit for community service. Says parents need to show more responsibility.

McCain says it's a civil rights issue of the 21st Century. Says we have equal access to schools now. Says choice of school, charter schools is part of the answer. Get rid of bad teachers. Charter schools provide competition. (Oh, great! More deregulation! ... kidding...) Throwing money at the problem is not the answer. Need to reward good teachers. Need to improve education. As far as college, need to provide affordable loans.

Schieffer asks if the federal government should provide more money.

Obama says it is important to help local school districts. Talking about No Child Left Behind. Says the money was left behind. Says he and McCain agree on charter schools and the need to remove bad teachers. Says they disagree that vouchers can be given to solve the problems. And also college accessibility/affordability. Says McCain's economic advisor was asked why he didn't have a plan to help kids go to college and he said that we can't give money to every special interest group.

McCain talking about vouchers in the DC school system. Says parents there wanted it. On No Child Left Behind, says it was a great first beginning. But it had flaws that need to be fixed. Says spending more money isn't the answer. (Did Obama say it was?) Says programs need to be reformed.

Uhhhhh.... I'm losing it... I'm tired...

Obama says the centerpiece of McCain's plan is to increase vouchers in DC but no where else.

Schieffer plugs mydebate.org where you can watch this debate and the previous ones.... and that's where you can go to see the Senators' closing statements... because I'm stopping here.